Comments on But, I am a Liberal!: On Mavericks and Moderates

"tnc said...But I don't view her as some sort of c...

2008-10-30T16:31:00.000-05:00

"tnc said...
But I don't view her as some sort of crazed creationist nut-job the way many of my secularist friends do."

I don't find her to be a creationist nut-job because I'm a secularist, I find her to be a creationist nut-job because I'm a scientist and her views and statements on science paint her in that light.

"daniel stark said...
I really think Sarah Palin isn't as bad as she is made out to be and most of the problems that people latch to her are exaggerated."

People have latched on to the things she's actually said though, and things she's repeated ad infinitum, not some stumbled one liners or one off remarks. I'll give her points for sticking to some terrible talking points that the McCain campaign gave her (all the foreign policy bullplop with Russia), but she's done a fine job making herself out to look like all that's wrong with a large portion of the Republican base.

linked and added comments to both of your posts he...

2008-10-30T09:42:00.000-05:00

linked and added comments to both of your posts here:

http://newcentrist.wordpress.com/2008/10/29/dodds-and-stark-on-the-mccain-campaign/

I agree with Daniel about Palin. Was she the best ...

2008-10-29T06:59:00.000-05:00

I agree with Daniel about Palin. Was she the best pick? I don't think so. But I don't view her as some sort of crazed creationist nut-job the way many of my secularist friends do.

As a VP pick, I don't think she is any worse than Dan Quayle. He wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and she has more appeal with working-class Republicans than he ever did. Come to think of it, I don't think Quayle appealed to many Republicans at all. They didn't hate him (as many do with McCain) but he was so boring. At least Palin gets some people fired up. And when the MSM and others continue to rail against her, it only makes her that much more attractive for many conservatives.

I really think Sarah Palin isn't as bad as she is ...

2008-10-28T22:00:00.000-05:00

I really think Sarah Palin isn't as bad as she is made out to be and most of the problems that people latch to her are exaggerated. That doesn't mean I would support a Palin-Somebody ticket in 2012, because the focus of the administration would change. It would also matter on the opposing candidate. So no, I don't see her as a transforming figure or a future leader representing me, I see her as serving as a vice president would (who by the way, usually are different from their top ticket bearers; Nixon wasn't Eisenhower, Johnson wasn't JFK, George H.W. Bush wasn't Reagan).

If there is a civil war in the Republican Party after this election (which I doubt, though it is entirely plausible), I will also be left in the wilderness (i.e. with no national political party, the Minnesota independence party looks pretty attractive to me). If it does occur, it wasn't Palin that caused it, for signs were already seen within in the Republican primary.

In 2007, I decided that I was going to vote for McCain. If Romney won, or Huckabee, I probably would be sitting this election cycle out (I'll throw out the word "maybe"). Voting Republican brings along certain baggage, i.e. the third leg of the Republican party, the social conservatives (with the others being defense hawks and fiscal conservatives). On social issues, I consider myself center-left. Yet in many cases, I show an extreme amount of apathy on social issues, allowing me to like characters such as Bobby Jindal. If social issues is their main focus and platform however, I'm pushed away (not to the lengths a Hitchens or Sullivan would).

We'll see what happens.

New political party names...

The Modern Party?

American Centrists?

Neo-Etc? Heh.

I like that last one.

Daniel, I always appreciate rebuttals!You are righ...

2008-10-28T20:23:00.000-05:00

Daniel, I always appreciate rebuttals!

You are right about McCain being ready on day one and Obama arguably not. I still think it’s one of McCain’s strongest arguments. And while it may be unfair to consider McCain’s age, I do think that things being as they are, he needed to have a VP candidate that put people at ease when they considered having that person as their leader. Even putting the experience angle aside, I could excuse her lack of familiarity with national politics if I thought she was intellectual and inquisitive in nature, and I sadly don’t.

McCain may have had few good choices. You pick Lieberman, you miss off conservatives. You pick Palin, you piss off moderates. You pick Pawlenty, and people wonder “who the fuck is Pawlenty?” This is a tough year for Republicans, and I do think McCain is the only candidate running from his party that could have won. With the economic crisis, a good argument can be made that McCain simply couldn’t reverse the perception people have of the last 8 yeas. But I also don’t want to excuse him or the Republican Party from major missteps they have made, so I won’t say that it was solely the economy that has done McCain in.

Palin may have shored up some conservative support, but I don’t think she pulls McCain enough votes to justify her being on the ticket, and her divisiveness is going to further split the party especially now that McCain advisers are coming out calling her “a whack job.” It may be necessary to work with or pander to religious conservatives to win elections, but I also don’t want them leading the party, and handing Palin the VP has empowered them.

I responded and expanded on my blog. Too big to r...

2008-10-28T19:37:00.000-05:00

I responded and expanded on my blog. Too big to re-post it here. It's fair to say that I disagree with you some, heh. The discussion grows...

Good Point TNC. Since I often skip over some of th...

2008-10-28T17:10:00.000-05:00

Good Point TNC. Since I often skip over some of the more religious pieces in Commentary, I do forget that the magazine still has a focus in that area. Since I am a daily Contentions reader, I have been disappointed in watching many commentators that I respect come out claiming Palin is full of promise and the future of the party. I have a hard time believing this group will come down on the religious conservative side of a Republican civil war, but who knows.

And I also think you are right as to how many Republicans will view McCain’s defeat. The Republican Party is going to lose, and lose big next week. The party had best get used to being an opposition, but it is completely up to them as to how long they expect to be there. The Repubs can change direction and retool for the next election cycle, or they can drift into Christian right wing conservatism and be lost for decades.

Okay there is still a week to go and if I were a D...

2008-10-28T15:29:00.000-05:00

Okay there is still a week to go and if I were a Democrat I would hold fire on the triumphalism until the votes are counted. That said Obama looks set to do to the GOP in08 what Blair did to the tories in 07... which is pretty well what you said anyway!

You write:"Lord knows where the Commentary neocons...

2008-10-28T10:53:00.000-05:00

You write:

"Lord knows where the Commentary neoconservative types are going to find themselves in this conflict, as they have surely been apologists for Palin and her many shortcomings as of late."

While identified as "neocon", Commentary has had a social conservative orientation for quite a while. Look at the tone of the articles towards Reform Judaism to say nothing of intermarriage to see what I mean.

This month's issue carries advertisements from two organizations, "The Jewish Pro-Life Foundation" and "Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality (JONAH)" which sound like the sorts of organizations evangelicals have been promoting for decades.

As I've mentioned before, I think the majority in the Republican party will blame McCain's problems on his centrism. They will call for candidates who take hard-line socially conservative positions. Unfortunately, I do not see a moderating influence in the party the way Blue Dog Democrats keep the Democrats from being dominated by the liberal wing. Most of the moderate/centrist/liberal Republicans have been driven out of national office. They have some success at the local level (Giuliani in NYC) and state level (Arnold in Cali.) but would never win the hearts and minds of Republicans on a national level.